Noob Question About Incentive Variants

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Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby Justin Mabooty » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:23 pm

Hello all.
I frequently see people use Comicchron numbers to figure out the estimated number of incentive variants in existence but I had a question about this.
If a comic sold 50,000 in one month and it had a 1:100 incentive variant, would the likely number of the incentive cover be significantly less than 500?
I'm asking this because tons of stores don't order enough to qualify for the 1:100 so the number is probably significantly less than 500 right?
I live within driving distance of 10 stores and pretty much none of them ever order enough to qualify for even 1:50 let alone higher number incentives so when I see numbers based off Comicchron I can't help but think they are actually much lower.
Am I wrong? Does it matter?
Thanks
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby SilverEye » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:24 am

There are always more copies printed and available, usually from different channels. One being comps for the artists, writers, inkers, colorist ... I've heard they get at least 10 copies each. Diamond may also have a few extra copies.
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby Yroc » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:28 pm

Some rules I've picked up on:

First rule: just b/c it's rare does not mean it's valuable. So many 1:100s out there that no one wants.
Second rule: even if it may not be rare (from a print run perspective), if collectors are keeping it in their PCs, it's htf and desired.
Third rule: print runs don't matter if it's marketed as rare and ppl believe it.
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby McDowal » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:29 am

Thanks for the clarification!
I just want to find smarkets online app. I guess it's right time to consult my friend about it. Now everyone have a chance to get it. I'm glad there are no troubles at all.
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby OrangeCrush » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:10 pm

Honestly, there are a lot of thing about the modern variant market that I dislike, but the switch from stated edition sizes to ratio variants is witout question the thing I hate the most. At least with stated edition sizes people knew exactly how many copies existed. Comic companies have switched to the ratio model to make people think that particlar variants are more rare than they really are. Edition sizes for vaiants like Jay Company Comics were usually in the 100-200 range and those variants usually cost $15-$20. I gurantee with the print runs many comics are getting, even 1:100 variants have more than 100-200 copies in existance yet the price of most 1:100 comics dwarfs the price we used to see with variants that had stated edition sizes of 100-200. I purchased 3 copies of the Michael Turner Vampirella sketch variant which was limited to 50 copies for just $19.99 each. An edition size of 50 is easily the equivilent to 1:500 or 1:1000 variants with many comics and the prices on those can reach just outright ridiculous levels. I have seen people spend over $1,000 on some of the newer modern variants. So basically, this whole switch to ratio variants as opposed to stated edition sizes is all about the deception of making a comic appear to be more rare than it really is and thus being able to charge more money as a result, significantly more in many cases. Its one of he biggest con's in the entire collectible industry.

Personally, my price limit for variants is $20 now and I only buy them from my absolute favorite artists. If a variant is more than $20, I skip it and move on. IMO, the entire modern variant market is going to crash in a big way. If you look at all of the various crashes that have occurred in various collecting markets over the years (Baseball Cards, Comics, Beanie Babies, etc), there were key indicators that most of those crashes had in common and most of those are now present with the modern variant market. One of the most common indicators and clearest to see is a massive increase in production. We have definitely reached that point with the modern variant market. There are so many being produced now its almost impossible keepiing track of all of them. One of my favorite companies, Dynamite, has become one of the worst offenders. For Red Sonja and Vampirella, you can see as many as 6-10 variants per issue. You have the black and white version, Blood red version, virgin copies for each type of variant, etc. How many issues were there for Dynamite's first volume of Red Sonja? like 300? I honestly feel sorry for the people spending a lot of moey on modern variants. A collectible created to be rare on purpose will never compare with a collectible that becomes rare naturally over time. IMO, the variant market with modern comics has become the biggest bubble market in the entire collectible industry and its onl a matter of time before it bursts.

My advice to noobie comic collectors would be to avoid variants as much as possible and if you do wind up buying them, stick with lower priced variants. in the long run, most of the people buying the 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, 1:1000, etc. are going to wind up losing most of the money they spent. Hand drawn covers could be one of the exceptions as pricing for original comic artontinues to skyrocket.And at least with those their a one of a kind collectible.
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby Justin Mabooty » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:24 pm

I was just curious on a 75k print run comic that had a 1:1000 incentive, how many stores would actually hit the 1,000 mark to get the book.
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby ygogolak » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:12 pm

Justin Mabooty wrote:I was just curious on a 75k print run comic that had a 1:1000 incentive, how many stores would actually hit the 1,000 mark to get the book.

Very few. They would have to have a good in-house and online presence.
That doesn't mean that a lot more are printed however.
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Re: Noob Question About Incentive Variants

Postby Ben Steiniger » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:33 am

OrangeCrush wrote:Honestly, there are a lot of thing about the modern variant market that I dislike, but the switch from stated edition sizes to ratio variants is witout question the thing I hate the most. At least with stated edition sizes people knew exactly how many copies existed. Comic companies have switched to the ratio model to make people think that particlar variants are more rare than they really are. Edition sizes for vaiants like Jay Company Comics were usually in the 100-200 range and those variants usually cost $15-$20. I gurantee with the print runs many comics are getting, even 1:100 variants have more than 100-200 copies in existance yet the price of most 1:100 comics dwarfs the price we used to see with variants that had stated edition sizes of 100-200. I purchased 3 copies of the Michael Turner Vampirella sketch variant which was limited to 50 copies for just $19.99 each. An edition size of 50 is easily the equivilent to 1:500 or 1:1000 variants with many comics and the prices on those can reach just outright ridiculous levels. I have seen people spend over $1,000 on some of the newer modern variants. So basically, this whole switch to ratio variants as opposed to stated edition sizes is all about the deception of making a comic appear to be more rare than it really is and thus being able to charge more money as a result, significantly more in many cases. Its one of he biggest con's in the entire collectible industry.

Personally, my price limit for variants is $20 now and I only buy them from my absolute favorite artists. If a variant is more than $20, I skip it and move on. IMO, the entire modern variant market is going to crash in a big way. If you look at all of the various crashes that have occurred in various collecting markets over the years (Baseball Cards, Comics, Beanie Babies, etc), there were key indicators that most of those crashes had in common and most of those are now present with the modern variant market. One of the most common indicators and clearest to see is a massive increase in production. We have definitely reached that point with the modern variant market. There are so many being produced now its almost impossible keepiing track of all of them. One of my favorite companies, Dynamite, has become one of the worst offenders. For Red Sonja and Vampirella, you can see as many as 6-10 variants per issue. You have the black and white version, Blood red version, virgin copies for each type of variant, etc. How many issues were there for Dynamite's first volume of Red Sonja? like 300? I honestly feel sorry for the people spending a lot of moey on modern variants. A collectible created to be rare on purpose will never compare with a collectible that becomes rare naturally over time. IMO, the variant market with modern comics has become the biggest bubble market in the entire collectible industry and its onl a matter of time before it bursts.

My advice to noobie comic collectors would be to avoid variants as much as possible and if you do wind up buying them, stick with lower priced variants. in the long run, most of the people buying the 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, 1:1000, etc. are going to wind up losing most of the money they spent. Hand drawn covers could be one of the exceptions as pricing for original comic artontinues to skyrocket.And at least with those their a one of a kind collectible.
this is not the 90’s. Yes there are a lot of variants out there but the 90’s crash was for a variety of reasons, including print runs in the millions...books today have print runs in the tens of thousands. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Blanket statements like ‘avoid variants as much as possible’ just don’t make sense. If you don’t like variants, that’s fine, but a lot of people do, and a lot of people who do their homework can make profit off them—the key is to not be buying them when they are hot.

And to answer the original question, yes, Diamond has confirmed that if a book has a 50k print run and there is a 1:50 variant, appx 1000 are printed. A lot of those sit in their warehouse because stores don’t order enough to get them initially, so they may be harder to get for a while. Then diamond has their warehouse sale to move all the copies that couldn’t be sold initially or were given as damage replacements to start with.


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