#CBSIBOLO List For NCBD 9/4/2019

 

What Is The #CBSIBOLO List?

 

The Bolo List was created, initially, as an Instagram exclusive piece of content I dubbed comics cliff notes. A cheat sheet of sorts, the purpose of the Bolo list is to give CBSI Nation the most up to date information as LCS doors open on NCBD.

The Bolo list is not a list of books you should buy or books that will rise in value.  It's simply a reporting of what we are seeing in social media response and chatter, talk within our community, initial Ebay sales, as well as communication with retailers and posted online spoilers.

Similarly,  every 1st appearance in a given week may not be covered. We only list first appearances that are confirmed first hand or by multiple reputable sources PRIOR to NCBD. No delentiation will be made for full vs. Cameo Appearance as it is for the market to decide and that can not be done until after the books have hit on release day.

The Bolo List is ⅓ of CBSI's NCBD attack with Simpleman's Weekly Picks and The Wed One. I am very happy to be bringing the Bolo List to ComicBookInvest.Com and all our readers. Be sure to follow us on IG (@comicbookinvestcbsi) for other Exclusive CBSI BOLO content.

 

#CBSIBOLO LIST

 

Confirmed 1ST Appearances

Reader Buzz

Variant Buzz

AKA Mr. BOLO'S Long Term Play

 

FOR THIS WEEK'S BACK ISSUE BOLO….

 

Let's ruffle some spec feathers and talk first appearances vs cameos!

 

Cameos are the most mislabeled thing in comics.

 

 

They are used as a precursor to a character's first appearance. Yet no definition supports that.

 

 

Yes they may be brief but if the character has yet to be in a book they are not well known. In that vein Spiderman showing up in a panel of Fantastic Four is a cameo. And while they may be brief, being brief does not negate the appearance as a first appearance.  

 

 

By definition. The first time a character participates or  ” shows up” it's an appearance. If it's their first, it's a first appearance.  The argument of Cameo vs First Full appearance is a made up argument. There is no such thing as a first full appearance (my opinion). What defines full? There is no number of panels or speaking requirements that define full or cameo appearances.  It's all opinion and it varies from person to person. Even brief's definition leaves room for interpretation.

 

 

And the argument in the community often lands on “the market decides”. But let's be honest, the market is swayed by what sites (like this one) , talking heads on YouTube Channel's (Like Myself), and Apps and Social Communities say . Some have ulterior motives. Often comics politics (owning one book over another) come into play. This is especially prevalent in spec social communities. Others (like news sources) are just afraid of backlash (not this guy lol). The way we currently operate (as a community), there is no true definition. The argument is even made “well CGC says” ….

 

 

But the reality is CGC doesn't have a board of comics historians making these decisions. They listen to what the market says. They are also swayed by what people are filling out commonly on their submission forms. It becomes a circular issue.

I propose a real simple answer, the first time a character appears is the first appearance, PERIOD.

And creators agree. They tend to take a very common sense approach to this argument. This discussion made news in the community made news recently when Donny Cates was asked about Dylan Brock.

 

 

Me too Donny! Oh here comes the CGC argument….

 

 

I agree Donny. But people want to bring up classics. Time old tradition and long standing first appearances such as Hulk #181.  Saying that the market has long decided. Yet the market was vastly different then. No internet, no apps, and no power or outlet for creators to share their views.  

(Hulk #180)

 

And what is Marvel's take? Well we have all seen this from the House and Powers of X preview….

 

 

And still it is argued. People want to act like Marvel changed something all of a sudden. So before you make that argument let's look at a 30 year old Marvel product…

 

 

Or maybe you want to argue about this guy???

 

(ASM #299)

 

Marvel, the creators, and Webster's dictionary all support the common swans approach to first appearances. Yet we as a market, as a comic community feel the need to complicate it with a blurry set of standards that only leave room for comic politicians to argue and spike books. It's not too late comic Fam. We can make a change. We can make things right. We can make things worlds easier on ourselves. Hindsight is 2020 so I propose we get things right going into 2020. So my BACK ISSUE BOLO of the week is very simple. It's this book.

 

 

Featuring the first appearance of this guy…

 

(Venom #7)

 

And the topic is especially relevant with today's Spawn #300 release which sees this which will undoubtedly be called a cameo instead of a 1st appearance.

 

(Spawn #300)

 

And already is by those who have influence on the market. And I don't blame Key Collector App or their owner Nick. This is not a shot at him or his app.  He is just following the market status quo. And if he doesn't, the masses will complain. We are both news sources and part of a comics community. We both face these challenges.

 

 

In my opinion this is Todd Mcfarlane (one of my comics heroes) is using the market against itself to sell two issues (#300 & #301) as keys. This will cause both to be seen as “in demand” if this character attains popularity.  He sells double the comics. The publisher is profiting from the confusion. Not us. And where did he learn this. My guess is none other than from his experiences with ASM #299 and #300.

 

 

And before you say I sound like a know it all (which I apologize for as it is mostly for affect and entertainment value) ask yourself, Isn't the know it all the one who argues against the publisher and the creator and the dictionary to support their own made up definition and feel supported because others lament to the masses and go along with it?

 

 

Grab Venom #7, Grab ASM #299, ASM #360, Uncanny X Men Annual #14, Avengers #195 and many more. Because if the market changes their mind, so will the values drastically change. And truth is the only thing stopping that is comic politicians claiming 2nd appearances as 1sts. Those who are invested in hundreds and thousands of dollars in Improper Firsts (how do you like that name Topher lol???) A brief first appearance may be a cameo, but it also is a first appearance.

 

(UXM Annual #14)

 

(Avengers #195)

 

(ASM #360)

 

Jack DeMayo AKA Mr. BOLO

 

25 comments

  • Adam Lebednik

    This is Bolo bonus!

    venom 7

  • Ben C

    Amazing and on point Bonus my friend. Very very well done!!

  • Avatar

    Great article, and I seem to recall a very in-depth and well-written article written on this site a few weeks back which really brought this interesting dichotomy to my attention like never before. While it is a market driven business, but I don’t see the values for classics such as Hulk 181, Giant Size X-Men 1, or Amazing Spider-Man 300 shifting to Hulk 180, Uncanny X-Men 94 and Amazing Spider-Man 299 respectively, despite the latter comics being the true firsts.

    On a side note, I am admittedly not very familiar with the Spawn universe, but I thought there already was a She-Spawn (or a some similar female iteration)?

  • Peter Renna

    While I dipped a toe into this subject last month in Usual Suspects #52, I agree a 1st appearance is a 1st appearance. Muddying the waters with semantics over cameos, full, etc is all about someone trying to manipulate the market and shepherding people towards the book they want. It’s a form of negging calling a book a first cameo. You don’t want that, you want first full. Or you want both to be safe.

    I have both Hulk 180 and 181, and ASM 299 and 300. I totally agree that the 1st appearances without need of qualification is 180 and 299. That said, my personal preference to have a character engaged in the story makes me WANT 181 and 300 more. I like to read comics. So getting that Oh S!!!! moment in a cliffhanger is cool, I want the guts of the story in the next issue more. And it’s for that reason that I would personally pay more for 181 and 300.

    That said, I still believe the values on 180 and 299 should be closer to the big boys that follow. As to which should be valued more by the community? That’s up to each and every one of us to decide which book we want. So if we all started calling 181 Wolverine’s 2nd appearance, that wouldn’t make me value it any less personally. I know the deal. I know what’s in both. I am not being swayed by terminology. But I think we need to have a clearer designation for newer collectors who may be influenced by others as to which book they should put their $$$ towards.

    If I wake up tomorrow, and the market decides they all want 180 more than 181, that’s fine by me. On a personal level I will still not part with my 181 (unless I get a better copy😉). I may have been conditioned to want 181 more, but decades of wanting something is not something I can easily shake, if ever. So 180 is the 1st, but I still love my 181 more. But that’s just me. 🤘😎🤘

  • Avatar

    Well said! I like this article

  • Avatar

    Great article. I totally agree and have felt this way for years. The difference in the vast majority of these examples and others is the cover. Unfortunately, in the comic world cover is king, and has almost always been. The subsequent issue for almost all of these comics we’re talking about are better than the previous one containing the actual and literal first appearance. It may be possible to sway the community into thinking logically, but I think market value will never change.

  • Avatar

    If Hulk 181 didn’t have Wolverine on the cover I think #180 would garner more interest and would be worth quite a bit more. Best “cameo” panel in all of comicland IMO.

    • Avatar

      Always bet on first cover appearance when trying to pick between cameo and full appearance.

      Venom 7 vs. 9 is interesting in that neither have Dylan on the cover. I fact, is Dylan’s first cover Venom 16?

  • Avatar

    I’ve pondered on this throughout the day and realized that it’s a lot more complicated these days with all the many printings that occur. Decades ago you only had one cover to choose from for each issue and so with many of the covers listed (e.g. Hulk 181, Giant Size X-Men 1, Amazing Spider-Man 300, etc.) you really only had to choose one issue’s cover or the other’s. Now, with over 20 variants for many comics, it’s not as simple. Are there many examples where the cameo appearance is worth more than the first full appearance, especially when the character isn’t featured on the cover? And when there is a 1st appearance and the comic has 10, 20, or more variants, doesn’t it then really depend on which of the covers is preferred by the masses (e.g. Naomi had one cover that was worth many more times than the other).

  • Avatar

    No green lantern 11?

  • A. J. Diesel

    SIKTC was a fun read! Cool horror story. It’s a shame that these independent published books don’t have legs, Boom has put out a few good ones recently.

  • ninesquareinches.com
    ninesquareinches.com

    This is not a hot take. This discussion has gone on for years. I would go so far as to call this a classic “straw man argument.” Does anyone really debate whether or not Wolverine first showed up in Hulk 180?

    And cameo doesn’t have to be of a well-known character… it is defined by Oxford as “a small character part in a play or movie, played by a distinguished actor or a celebrity.” The key there is ‘a small character part.’ Wolverine’s first appearance is a small character part. Dylan’s first appearance is a small character part. Same with Darkseid, Galactus, Venom, Cable, Major X, etc. A first appearance can be a cameo (Wolverine, Venom, Doomsday, etc.) or a full story (She-Hulk, Nova, etc.)… they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. You can also have a second appearance that is a character’s first FULL appearance–meaning they have a meatier part in the story. Surely you can see why a first full story can be more desirable to some than a first appearance in a single panel!

    Which comes down to this: why is a book more desirable or valuable than another? I’m sure there are folks who covet Hulk 180, Amazing Spider-Man 299, Spider-Man/Deadpool 47… but many people prefer the follow-up issues where these new characters get to do more than just “show up.”

    I think the reason this is stuck in my craw, Jack, is that you appear to be giving people a hard time about preferring first full appearances over first appearances that are cameos. Honestly, the market (i.e. consumers of the product) will ultimately decide which is more valuable while still acknowledging a character’s “true first” appearance. Plus, it can swing wildly either way at any time–look at Spider-Man/Deadpool 47 vs Major X 1! Isn’t it odd that a tiny, squint-or-miss it drawing of Major X is more desirable than Major X 1? But no one (except Rob) denies that SD 47 is his first appearance in comics. (Or does the exclusive, only-available-thru-Rob-Liefeld issue of Deadpool 10 count as his first appearance?)

    I guess the market will decide!

    Sorry for the lengthy diatribe. Keep on keepin’ on!

    P.S. Love the new FOC show… great idea!

    • Avatar

      Just as with Spider-Man/Deadpool 47 vs Major X 1, most people accept Spider-Gwen’s first appearance being in Edge Of Spider-Verse #2 (or possibly Deadpool’s Secret Secret Wars or Howard the Duck #1), but I believe it’s a little overlooked that her first appearance actually occurred in Deadpool Vs. Hawkeye #0 (but no one really seeks out that title).

      It would be neat to see a breakdown of instances where the cameo has a greater value versus where the first full appearance has a greater value. I imagine there aren’t too many instances where the brief cameo/single image within a comic have held greater value than the first full comic appearance.

      Full Issues with Greater Value:
      GS X-Men 1
      Hulk 181
      ASM 300
      Edge of Spider-Verse 2

      Cameo with Greater Value:
      Spider-Man/Deadpool 47

      Just a start from above conversation threads.

      • Avatar

        Her costume’s first appearance is DPvsHE #0. Marvel has officially stated that is not Gwen Stacy in the outfit. So until a story officially retcons that position it’s technically not the first appearance of the that character (I.e. costumes are not 1st appearances).

  • Avatar

    I have no idea why the discussion is ASM #299 vs #300. Venom appears prior to #299 in Web #18, 24, and ASM #298…

  • ninesquareinches.com
    ninesquareinches.com

    So out of curiosity, what is the first appearance of Doomsday? Cable?

    • Avatar

      Doomsday cameos in Mos #17, full and cover in #18.

      Cable… there’s a thing in New Mutants #86, but it’s not really part of the story. Nathan Summers first appears as Cable in New Mutant #87.

  • Avatar

    This is a ridiculous argument. Hulk 180 had 1 picture of Wolverine. Hulk 181 had him throughout the book. Even though the first time WE saw him was 180, everyone wanted the issue that had him all through the book… not just a panel at the end if the book. Because of that, more people wanted 181, it’s basic economics after that. Supply and demand. As the demand for 181 rose, so did its price.

    He says CGC should not be allowed to influence the market, but then says Donny Cates (and other creators) should be allowed to influence the market. What sense does that make? Donny Cates contradicts his own words. He said Venom 3 is Knulls first appearance when he appeared in Thor God of Thunder years before.

    The writer of this article is suggesting that the free, open, and zero percent influenced market of the past was somehow wrong, while a market that is 100% influenced by publishers, creators and technology today would be a better reflection. That’s crazy.

    Thats like saying married couples and families all through out history got it wrong, because today you have the technology of online dating. People who master classing games like Chess got it wrong, because today you can buy an Xbox and play on line. Makes no sense.

    A free and open market is ALWAYS better than a market that has outside influences. We saw that earlier from Rob Leifeld. He was trying to force people to spend god awful money on his website to purchase the “first appearance” of Major X. But Lo and Behold an image of him appeared in Spiderman / Deadpool and the MARKET decided. That led to Leifelds epic rant.

    It’s ridiculous now. Today you have people finding advertisements in books and calling them first appearances. Sketches in letter columns are first appearances. CRA-ZEEE. That market will always and has always decided.

  • Avatar

    … and why do you always mention Key Collector? Every other video and article you somehow mention them. Stop the hate.

  • AZBarbarian

    As far as I know the Overstreet guide and the collecting market started using the word cameo to mean a brief, meaningless first appearance. Did it have other, prior uses in other context? Yes. Are those uses relevant to a discussion of comic books? No.

    Teach people. Don’t manipulate people.

    By the way, what you label the appearance isn’t what makes a book desirable. It is what is inside the book along with many other factors, including collector’s fickle nature, that decides a books value.

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