The Curious Case of Hawkeye vs. Deadpool #0

Shortly after Spider Gwen became a sensation on the secondary market, the appearance of what was presumed to be Gwen and Jane Foster as Thor in Hawkeye Vs. Deadpool #0 became a hot topic among speculators and collectors. The mini series premiere issue was released weeks before Gwen would see her debut in Edge of Spider Verse #2. This prompted many in the community to wonder if we have a True Firsts type of appearance.

Almost as quickly as that book rose in popularity seemingly died once the market consensus became that those were trick or treaters in the Hawkeye vs. Deadpool issue. So not first appearance, just kids in costumes. Quite possibly the first appearance of those costumes though which should be noted. Grading companies seemed to quickly jump on board with that line of thinking.

(Alamo Comic Con Variant)

This all became news again when an industry app alerted subscribers to Hawkeye vs. Deadpool #0 as possible first Spider Gwen and Jane Foster Thor. New collectors and speculators  jumped on the alert and it sparked the debate again amongst veteran speculators. Monday saw more than 50 books and lots containing Hawkeye vs. Deadpool #0 fly off of eBay seeing prices raise from $2 to $20. But are these people making a good investment or too quick to follow up on a tip? As the leaders in speculation, CBSI needed to know the truth.

So CBSI Social Media's Jack DeMayo took to twitter to go straight to the source and reached out to the men responsible for the books in question  to get some clarity. Jason Latour, Writer and Credited Spider Gwen creator who wrote Edge of Spider Verse #2 had a very short and simple answer for the spec community.

Not not to leave any stone unturned he also reached out to Gerry Duggan, Writer of the Hawkeye Vs. Deadpool mini series.

And just in case you don’t pick up on Duggan's sarcasm (c'mon he did write Deadpool after all)  in his response here is a Reddit AMA he did four years ago where he gave a bit more detail.

So there you have it Spider Gwen may be in the 616 now and from Earth 65 but she was born in Charlotte, North Carolina in the head of Jason Latour and given life on the pages of Edge of Spider Verse #2 with design, art, and aesthetic from Robbi Rodriguez and color from Rico Renzi.

Hawkeye Vs. Deadpool #0 should not be dismissed as irrelevant as costume First Appearances do carry some cache in the industry (I'm looking at you Black Suit Spidey!). Plus Gerry Duggan writes a fun Deadpool story. But, when investing In Spider Gwen or Jane Foster, make sure your doing it on the right books for the right reasons.

 

23 comments

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    Informative article!

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    The Duggan response is a non-answer, and the Latour response, a curt “Yes” to a two-part leading question, is not definitive either (because of the phrasing of the question). So jury’s still out.

    Also, Captain Marvel 17 2nd print is also “just” the first appearance of a costume and only on a cover, and Web of Spider-Man 18 is (supposedly) just a hand as a first appeatance…

    And look what those sell for.

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      Question to Latour is Arent they just costumed trick or treaters.

      Answer is yes. Super simple.

      I’ve interviewed Jason a couple times for this site. This isnt the first time he has been asked this question. Just the first time with public record.

      Duggan’s answer may be written off as a non answer but you cant deny his answer in reddit four years ago. Also he states he invented both characters in the tweet. If you dont see that as meaning both costumed trick or treaters…… what do you see it as? No one has ever credited Duggan with Spider Gwen or Jane Foster Thors creation or invention.

      Finally the Captain Marvel comparison doesnt hold water. It’s still Kamala Khans first Appearance in costume. Its desired more because it also features the costume on cover. Your comparing that to kids wearing a store bought or homemade costume.

      Web Of Spider Man I agree with hence our last paragraph. It’s cool because it’s the first time the Spider Gwen costume is seen other than preview and adds. It should have value. But should not be miss labeled. Thanks for reading.

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    …one other thing-

    Duggan says he invented both characters and says credit me as both writer/artist on both characters.

    Well he wrote Hawkeye V Deapool 0 which was released weeks before EoSV 2, and he did write not EoSV 2.

    So he actually just confirmed Hawkeye V Deadpool as the first appearance of those characters.

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      Your totally wrong. He was in no way being serious. You realize he would have to take that credit up with Marvel not me or us or the app refrenced. It would affect royalties on things like the Into the Spider Verse Movie. Feel free to reach out to Duggan yourself. He twice answered this question 4 years apart.

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        I think that you ate reading their vague non-answers to your two part leading question the way that you want to, which is fine.

        Also, I see your response to CM 17 2nd (which I also disagree with since that is essentially a design cover) and raise you a Foom 2.

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          Lol again question didnt lead anything. This are intelligent men who have been asked the question before. Hence the matter of fact simple response frkm Jason and the tongue in cheek one frkm Duggan.

          Again, not defending CM 17 but it’s still Kamala in the costume….
          This is a random kid.

          I’m all about Foom but now your talking Mag appearances which is a whole different thing. I’m down with true firsts but that isnt Gwen or Jane in that comic.

          Also dont forget the CGC and CBCS evidence.

          Also, There is ZERO supporting evidence for it being the first appearance other than you actually thinking Duggan wants credit for two characters being paid royalties to other people for that creation. When have you even heard a creator use the work invented?

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            I don’t know what Duggan’s royalty payments look like or what they are based on lol (has he ever spoken out about that?), I was just stating a fact of him having written Hawkeye v Deadpool 0 and not having written EoSV 2. His response would suggest the Deadpool book as the first appearance, at the very least in the most technical sense. And Jason Latour had nothing to do with the Deadpool book which pre-dates EoSV 2 so he is not necessarily in a position to confirm or deny anything when it comes to that book.

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          The point is royalties go to credited creators and even marvel as a company credits Jason Latour Robbie Rodriguez and Rico Renzi. And Jason an authority on the subject since Spider Gwen has taken up a large portion of his careers to this point. A Los these two know each other and work together ar marvel and have for years. They are working together on the new Defenders project. That’s what it was. A nod to a friend. No one knew Gwen would get so big. Including Jason himself.

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            Great debate (and respectful too!), and definitely one worth having. Certainly the appearances could never rise to more than just “cameo”, even under the most generous of interpretations. EoSV 2 will always be the first (full) appearance, story, cover even under the strictest of interpretations. But you do have and will always probably always have your “first appearance purists” that will keep Hawkeye V Deadpool 0 on the radar and relevant, and that equals $.

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    I have one copy of EOSV #2 and 15 copies of Deadpool vs Hawkeye #0 so obviously the 1st true appearance of Spider-Gwen is DP vs Heye #0

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    Are we sure the costumed trick or treaters aren’t Gwen Stacy and Jane Foster going out for some Halloween fun together? You can’t dress up as a character that doesn’t exist yet…well you can, but I doubt some actual super hero is going to copy your outfit 😉

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      Very true point. Kind of a whole in the continuity aside fr outlook m the fact that Gwen at that point was from Earth 65. Only in a mini series coupe you get away with that. Thanks for reading!

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    Respect on the debate for sure and agree it will be on people radar. As a Gwen fan having lived locally and watched the character rise from the first signing Jason and the guys did after release until today and the growth of the character approaching her big screen debut, I still find H v D #0 cool and relevant to the history. It’s a cool note in the characters history and will always hold value, interest, and quite possibly controversy lol.

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    I don’t think anyone will be able to take away from the fact this is a clear cameo. How could any kid dress up as a character who doesn’t yet exist? It doesn’t make sense. If you want to stretch and say well they don’t exist yet for us, but in that universe they do, then you can stretch anything to mean anything… plus, art is subjective – even if you ask an artist what did you mean by drawing a tree, and they tell you they intended to draw a flower dressed up as a tree – that could still be debated because the artist could have changed their mind, have some sort of incentive to give a specific answer, or be lying. Unless you have something on paper from the artist, dated the same time as when the comic was created, and notarized, saying “these characters are trick-or-treaters”, this debate will never end. On top of all this, there are now a bunch of excited, new collectors with a cameo appearance of a character who will only get more popular – and they’ll ensure this time around, the cameo label stays alive, even if it isn’t on a cgc slab. Oh and I ordered 2 for cover price, so I’m on their team now lol.

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      But that’s the point there are a bunch of new collectors debating an issue that was debated and settled two plus years ago. The market will die down on that book like it did last time. Congrats on cover but those paying high prices will get left holding the bag. Also remember that Duggans story is out of continuity so the they didnt exist thing doesnt fly either. You dont know when that story took place but we know its trick or treaters and not Gwen and Jane. Gwen at the time of release. The costumes are an Easter egg. A clear cameo is hulk 180 or cable 86.

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        The appearances might be Easter eggs, but they are still first appearances in a strict interpretation of the term. There may be no narrative value, the first appearances may be “weak”, but they are still first appearances.

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    1st appearances of a costume. Kids are wearing them. Not Gwen Stacy wearing it. You want the character not the clothes.

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      The characters are not unmasked we dont know who they are lol. One creator (Latour) has since said he doesn’t know, and the other (Duggan) did not say either way. And like the other poster said above, creators can say anything after the fact, they can lie, they can joke, they can troll they can retcon years later like they did with Domino and Venom.

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    If Spider-Gwen wasn’t even part of MU 616 during the events of DP vs HE, that would mean that either that trick or treater has some foresite powers or that Spider-Gwen stole that girls costume upon arriving on MU 616 or that said trick or treater is Spider-Gwen’s counterpart on 616 which would mean either Gwen Stacy isn’t dead, there’s a clone of her running around or she’s a completely different person from MU 65 who is a fan of Spider-Gwen in MU 65 and she basically made it somehow to MU616 before Spider-Gwen did and she’s adapted to life on 616 pretty nicely.

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